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China: Interviews
This section provides quotes and insights from experts in China's digital media industry.
1. Benjamin Joffe, Founder of PlusEightStar
2. Kai Pan, Editor of CNReviews.com
3. Georg Godula, Co-Founder of Web2Asia
4. Tim Haynes, Founder of Digital China Guide
5. Wang Yue, Chinese technology blogger
1. Benjamin Joffe, Founder of Plus8Star on the "5Cs of Chinese Innovation"
Benjamin Joffe is the Founder of Plus8Star, a leading strategy and innovation consulting firm specializing in Asia's tech and telecom markets. He developed the "5Cs of Chinese Innovation," a model that illustrates the drivers behind Chinese innovation. You can access more of Benjamin's presentations here.
Do you think that innovations developed in China (under the specific conditions you mentioned in the 5Cs model) could succeed in other countries? For example, could micropayments take off in the U.S.?
Innovations do not have to have strong cultural or infrastructure factors to succeed. If you look at the 5Cs, only the "China" one is specific to China; others [provide] a general framework for innovation. For instance, one reason search has not made much progress for the past 10 years is because there are not many strong competitors to Google.
The fact is that recognizing them is an art as many observers dismiss ideas or concepts based on poor understanding, stereotypes, or seeing consequence where there is merely correlation. Moreover, there are no "Chinese" (or "American") innovation per se. There are ideas made commercially successful in China first. Chinese companies learned about micro-payments from Korea, which learned from some early services in US (which did not grow much). So micro-payment is merely "coming back home" (if it is a fact it was launched first in US!). If you look for articles about companies like Zynga, Playfish and IMVU you will see that this model is already successful (since about last year).
A concept successful in China can work elsewhere if conditions are comparable or if proper adaptation can be done. This is a bit like importing an animal specie or plant to a foreign country. Some can adapt and thrive, some cannot. You can check this presentation for ideas on "Techno-Darwinism".
Which innovations can Western companies realistically adopt, and how can they learn from examples of Chinese innovation?
[Anything] has a reasonable chance to turn into a sustainable market, or improves an existing service. I am afraid I haven't found a formula for this yet. They can learn by putting aside stereotypes, stop thinking "this is Chinese" and looking at the fundamentals of the concepts, marketing strategies, business models. For instance, we helped IMVU benchmark product strategies of various Asian virtual worlds and social networks to identify best practices. IMVU is now implementing them and having good results in the US market with those.
What types of innovation are Chinese entrepreneurs adopting? Technological innovation? Innovative business models, marketing strategies? Are they launching new models or building and adapting models that have been developed in other countries?
Trying something totally new is much more risky and Chinese entrepreneurs are generally quite pragmatic. Investors are quite risk-averse and raising capital for something unproven is hard. Hence the bias.
Chinese entrepreneurs generally start with a service they see being successful somewhere else. If it does not work "as is", they diverge until the service becomes quite different (the 5Cs) as a matter of survival ("natural selection" and "mutation" in my idea of "Techno-Darwinism"). Generally the technology part is not the most important (as it is quite a commodity in the web and mobile space).
Why have some foreign companies failed to capture market share inChina's web 2.0 industry? (e.g. eBay losing significant market share to Chinese company Taobao)
Foreign companies are generally too slow to decide on key strategic things. Taobao decided to offer free listings and regained market share on eBay. The same happened in Japan between eBay and Softbank a few years back. Foreign companies also have management issues (local manager vs. local entrepreneur, much more hungry), PR issues (justify their decisions to both US and China audiences) Also, most "Web 2.0" companies rely on advertising revenue, which is very low in China. Even in US, most companies are having a hard time monetizing and cannot waste their resource supporting the Chinese market with support and bandwidth. It is a secondary priority for them at best.
Do you have any recommendations for foreign web 2.0 companies looking to enter China? What are some major pitfalls, and how can companies avoid them?
Some questions [companies] should ask themselves:
- Why do you want to enter China?
- Is your business model adapted to the market?
- Can you handle content moderation and the PR risk?
- What is your time frame?
Basically, do a proper due diligence before getting too excited - better spend a few thousands today than waste millions tomorrow. One example of hasty due diligence that resulted in utter failure.
What are some emerging, potentially high growth niches within China's web 2.0 industry that we should be looking out for?
Online games is not "Web 2.0" but very strong. Any service that monetizes it users rather than relying on advertising (ideally by integrating a virtual economy to fluidify transactions). Social gaming is, like in US, a fast-growing market. E-commerce related ventures might work well too.
2. Kai Pan, Editor of CNReviews.com, on China's blogosphere
Kai Pan is Lead Writer and Editor of CNReviews, an English language blog that covers "people, business, and life" in China. He commented on the development of China's blogosphere, growth of English language blogs in China, and difficulty of marketing through blogs.
![[Untitled]](http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/ejC8lLHVccHYgkp6GiNHhA130454/GW209H156 "[Untitled]")
How has the growth of China's blogosphere affected the way Chinese society receives and responds to news and information?
I'm not sure how big or influential the China blogosphere is to be honest but I feel it isn't as big or influential as it is in the West or, particularly, America. I'm not talking in absolute numbers of "blogs" or anything like that, but in terms of the authority and activity surrounding blogs.
To me, I think portal websites and discussion forums still dominate how Chinese society (well, the internet user subset actually) receives and responds to news and information. I don't see as many blogs in China that have the pseudo-journalist/journalism model that many top blogs in America have, where a blog has simply become a publishing medium. Most blogs in China, even the big ones that a lot of people know and follow, are still mostly outlets for personal expression and commentary rather than ad hoc media businesses or expert columns.
I've read a lot about online bulletin board systems in China. How do Chinese netizens use and interact with BBS? Is user behavior similar or different between BBS and blogs?
Online bulletin board systems (BBS) are probably better known as forums to Westerners these days. The interaction is similar to the interaction in the West. People go there to read and share news and opinions. It's becomes a community.
With both forums and most blogs, people can comment and discuss. With blogs, however, you have the blog owner largely initiating the conversation, whereas on forums, it's all user-generated content, where most everyone can start a topic to solicit reactions and replies.
As I said earlier, forums are much larger in China than they are in America, where the online landscape has moved away from forums towards social networks and individual blogs. In many ways, you can make daring parallels to how this reflects differences in collectivist/community-centric culture vs. individualistic-culture. Or...it could just be that the internet culture in China hasn't had as much time to develop as America's...and thus it hasn't reached the "next step" as America's has. The question here is whether or not China's internet landscape will develop along the same line as America's or will it always be somewhat different. For example, will forums always be bigger than blogs and social networks in China whereas forums forever lost the limelight to social networks in America?
There's been a recent surge of English-language bloggers in China, as well as translated sites like chinaSMACK. As an English-language blogger, what is your goal in writing for CNReviews? How do English-language blogs provide value to readers in China's blogosphere?
I think the surge in English-language blogging about China is a natural byproduct of increasing interest and attention to China by English-speakers. They correlate.
My goal in writing for CNR is mostly self-expression, as a means for me to share some of the thoughts and feelings I need to get off my chest. Our (Elliott and I) slightly more altruistic goal is to be a bridge, helping non-Chinese better understand the global situation regarding China today, helping them shed off outdated Cold-War oversimplifications and prejudices in the process, if need be. Or, at least, that's mostly my MO. Elliott is more focused on business and economics, whereas I'm more socio-political in focus, preferring to challenge prevailing misconceptions and biases, ostensibly begging people to be more understanding and empathetic with each other. Sounds very touchy feely, eh?
China blogosphere really needs to be defined and separated into Chinese-language and English-language, with the understanding that the two have little interaction with each other. Most Chinese people don't read English-language blogs in the "China blogosphere" because they can't read English. Most foreigners don't read Chinese-language blogs in the "China blogosphere" because, well, they can't read Chinese. The two audiences can't really access each other and while English-language blogs serve to give some insight into China, it's limited. Danwei, for example, may help foreigners get an idea of what's on the headlines of Chinese newspapers while chinaSMACK may help them get an idea of what's being talked about on Chinese forums. chinaSMACK might have an edge in that the person/people running it is actually native Chinese, whereas Danwei is run by a foreigner, albeit a foreigner who has been in China for a long time. There are still some appreciable differences between them given their different upbringing and backgrounds, and it can manifest in what they produce.
For foreigners, the value of English-language China blogs is simply additional insight into China topics from people who might know more. For the Chinese, unless they can read English, they're of little direct value, with indirect value being that these blogs may be presenting a more nuanced and accurate view of China and the Chinese to those who need it. Of course, whether most Chinese realize or agree with this is another matter.
The Chinese government has been pretty active in censoring access to sensitive content on the web. Has CNReviews ever faced censorship-related challenges? Do you think the government's policies are sustainable in the future?
We haven't been censored yet. *knocks on wood*
I don't want the government's policies to be sustainable in the future, but I'm not sure I can say whether it will or won't be. To me, it's a question of both will and technology. People are vain creatures and I think everyone can easily want to control what others say or think, so I'm very cynical about the will part. As for technology, who knows, right? Who's to say more sophisticated automated censorship AI technology isn't in our future, where we no longer even have a human input bottleneck, where a machine can "reason" out what constitutes dangerous speech or not. I'd like to think language is so complex that its too hard to program something to discern it but...? What I want to believe is that as people's living standards improve in China, they'll move up Maslow's hierarchy and begin caring a lot more about these less tangible things like speech and expression. I'm hoping as this happens, they'll influence how China is governed, and secure these freedoms and rights for themselves while resisting other people's tendencies and policies to limit them.
Do you have any recommendations for companies or organizations looking to engage audiences through the Chinese blogosphere?
I think most companies and organizations worth their salt already know they need to target Chinese people through Chinese-language properties and mediums and the ploys they use must become increasingly sophisticated just as they have in the West.
I don't think there are enough strong topical blogs in the Chinese blogosphere for serious advertising by major companies and organizations so for now, they're still largely at the mercy of major portals, forums, and social networks for the scale of advertising, promotional, and engagement opportunities they're looking for. It's a matter of eyeballs, even if we ignore how well executed these company or organizational initiatives are. It's still easier to engage audiences through several larger websites than many much smaller ones. This will only change when the underlying dynamics change, whether that means how the Chinese internet landscape changes due to changes in Chinese internet user behavior or the dynamics of "engagement".
3. Georg Godula, Co-Founder of Web2Asia, on digital media innovations in China
Georg is Co-Founder of Web2Asia, a Shanghai-based firm specializing in Asia market entry and localization. He commented on home-grown digital media innovations in China, particularly in the gaming and entertainment sectors. Click here to access more of Web2Asia's insights and presentations.
Chinese Internet companies have typically been considered "copycats" of their Western counterparts. To what extent is this still true?Major technological breakthroughs in the web 2.0 space still come out of Silicon Valley in the U.S. There were of course some exceptions like Skype, or in the software industry, Linux – but for the majority of innovations this is true. As a result, every other country in the world follows trends from the U
.S. in that field. You have as many copycats in Germany as you have in China, so I don’t think you can call the Chinese any worse than others!However, Chinese companies to innovate within their country’s special market environment. For example, the last time I was in Tokyo, I asked the CEO of Mixi.jp – the largest SNS in Japan – where he got his inspiration from. Does he look at other Asian countries like Korea for gaming-related inspiration or China for companies like Tencent?
I hoped he would say Asia, but he said Silicon Valley. I said he should look more at what’s going on in China and learn from Tencent. Mixi’s revenues are almost entirely ad-based. Tencent, on the other hand, only gets 14% of revenue from ads; the rest is from purchases of virtual currency. The idea of social networking sites is from the U.S.; the basic features were also conceptualized there. But the business models and more localized features differ among countries, and successful Chinese companies have been particularly good in adapting what they’ve learned from the U.S. and adding local flavor to it.
The real innovations and technological breakthroughs will be coming out of China though, simply because there is no other single large market anywhere else in the world. Because of its size and scale, there will be far more unknown problems to solve, which will spark new technologies to arise [out of China]. [China] will need to develop entirely new technology to handle 50 million unique concurrent users, or even 200 million users streaming video at the same time. And China will need to optimize its Internet traffic costs because monetization is so difficult in the country. All of these factors pressure companies to come up with new technology that nobody else out there in the world needed before. That’s also why tech-wise, some of the most interesting companies are coming out of China.
What factors have driven Chinese entrepreneurs to seek innovative business models?
Many challenges in the Chinese market environment. These include: underdeveloped infrastructure, no trustworthy third-party monitoring companies like Comscore, screwed up ad market, low credit card penetration, low average income and spending power, high competition, and low level of trust online. Also, there are uniquely Chinese challenges – the complexity of written language, local user behaviors – that force companies to localize their offerings.
What can foreign companies (e.g. Facebook) learn from these Chinese innovations? Can these business models be applied in other geographic markets (e.g. the U.S. and Europe)?
I think [foreign companies] can learn from both the technology and the business models. With regards to technology, video streaming and online gaming in China is particularly advanced, and foreign companies can learn from that. In terms of business models, again, gaming and entertainment has really developed in China (although heavily influenced by South Korea) with a lot of innovations with micropayments and virtual items. “Free to play, pay for more”: this will be the business model for [online] games in the future, and China and Korea are leading the trend. U.S. gaming companies are still selling games in a box, but you won’t see that anywhere in China. You also won’t see people paying USD 70 for a console anytime soon. Instead, they will want the access to the software for free, but will then be willing to pay smaller amounts to get better gear, skills, etc. Several Chinese gaming companies like Perfect World have set up offices in the U.S. and are already working on the U.S. market directly. Other gaming companies license stuff all around the world – for example, Shanda, Giant Interactive.
In the future, do you see domestic companies continuing to dominate the Web 2.0 industry in China? Why or why not?
Foreign companies and domestic companies are converging; they’ll eventually reach a healthy mix. For example, Google’s step by step on its way to grow in China, and it’s now the most advanced foreign company in the country. It will eventually gain more strength, and then we’ll see who’s next to follow. Again, companies with unique technology that cannot be easily copied will always stand a chance against local players. A social network like Facebook anyone can build; it’s not that big of a deal. On the other hand, Google’s algorithm and technology is the work of ten years.
4. Interview with Tim Haynes, Founder of Digital China Guide
Website: http://www.digitalchinaguide.com/
About The Interviewee
Hi, I’m Tim Haynes. My old school roots can be found in sociology where I cut my teeth on the Internet when browsers were still textual and dial-up was a privilege. This began my lifelong passion and career path trajectory from a fledgling Academic, to an Internet Entrepreneur, a Creative Director, an Interactive Director, and now as Chief Digital Officer within China's fastest growing full service digital agency.
1. Which role is social media playing in the private life and business world nowadays? And why is it so important?
Social media is invading all aspects of life, from business to private. Business is scrambling to include social media in their marketing mix or connect with consumers via social media for improved relationships. Of course social media is also impacting upon our social lives, both online and offline. Social media's reach is getting further and deeper, being a natural extension and fit into of our social existence. Most of us are, after all social by nature, and now digital technologies are enabling and feeding our desires for social interaction.
2. Do you think that every company should fully engage in social media in order to be successful?
Social media is not for every company, especially if your target audience are not active online or social media users.However, many companies can benefit from social media marketing. If you consider that many consumers are probably having a conversation about your company, and your products and services online right now, and without your input!
3. Is there any remarkable difference between the western and eastern blogosphere/online community?
There are significant differences between the East/West audience groups. These differences range from the quantitative [time spent online] to qualitative [how they interact with content and the value attributed to social media]. The differences are many and varied.
4. How does the online censorship in China affect you and your work? Are there any other restrictions?
I work around censorship here in China, either technically or otherwise. You must always work with what you have in the environment you find yourself.
5. How do you estimate the future of Social Media in China? Any special development or trends?
The future of social media in China will only become larger and more influential, Chinese audience have very high behavioral habits regarding internet usage and social media in particular. Chinese audience are leading the world in social media usage. Trends to watch are growth of micro-economies, the rise of micro and macro influences, and portability.
6. Do you have some "social media best practices" which you can recommend? Such as how to generate more traffic on our blog/wiki?
Social media is an ecosystem in itself, try to maintain conversations and obtain share of voice within the key nodes and spheres within social media relevant to your objectives/content area/era of interest and specialisation. So focus your activities and don't try to be everywhere, it's simply too large!
5. Interview with Wang Yue, Blogger
Website: http://wangyueblog.com/
About the Interviewee
Wangyue is a website manager in Sichuan, China. He is in telecommunication area and spend lot of time in developing web 2.0 and its related softwares. We know him through is blog, and we conduct an interview with him through email.
1. As an web developer in China, what do you think of the importance of digital media to work and live in China?
China owns the largest online population in the world, and digital media plays a crucial role for them to get information, go through news and share opinions on line. Especially some news and opinions that can not be covered by the official papers.
2. How about Digital Media to the business in China now? Is it necessary for corporations start exploring the digital media market?
In fact, many corporations, especially the large and middle ones, have already stepped into the DM field. Personally I believe digital media is a very effective and important tool to build brand image, conduct online PR and digital marketing for many corporations.
In fact, many corporations, especially the large and middle ones, have already stepped into the DM field. Personally I believe digital media is a very effective and important tool to build brand image, conduct online PR and digital marketing for many corporations.
3.What is the difference between the development of digital media in China and in western countries?
I am not sure about this point, but I feel currently the development of social media in China is still copying the concept of the western websites, and gradually add innovation and localized component to attract customers. QQ as a great example, that it start copy ICQ, and now QQ has far more popularity and innovation than ICQ.
I am not sure about this point, but I feel currently the development of social media in China is still copying the concept of the western websites, and gradually add innovation and localized component to attract customers. QQ as a great example, that it start copy ICQ, and now QQ has far more popularity and innovation than ICQ.
4. It is a norm that Chinese government will "filter" information online, also there are strict rules for the websites. Will this affect your work?
Impact.. not for work but a lot for daily online activities. Many useful information that I need can not be accessed. Also I would keep doubt about the information I found, whether it is reliable or not. As a web station owner, the impact is hard to imagine. I am walking on egg everyday, because you will never know whether your website can be visited or not the tomorrow.
5. Any experience you want to share with us in building internet connections and blog relations using digital media tool?
In my daily work, common tools are QQ, MSN, Gtalk, Twitter and my own blog, combined them together and spend time in maintaining them is a good strategy in build successful relationships online.
In my daily work, common tools are QQ, MSN, Gtalk, Twitter and my own blog, combined them together and spend time in maintaining them is a good strategy in build successful relationships online.
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